Forum:Graduation (1 and 2)
Continuity I challenge the validity of the following, moved from the article to here so it is not lost, JIC ---- * Kim is startled by Ron while drinking soda and spits a huge mouthful of it everywhere. This joke also appeared in the pilot episode Crush, when Josh Mankey, another boy Kim liked, suddenly surprised her in a similar manner. * The joke with the clock breaking down during the Seniors' last hour in high school is a reference to the very first Kim Possible episode produced. When Kim is in detention in Tick-Tick-Tick, the clock goes way too fast and Barkin has to reset it. * The college acceptance letters which Kim had been receiving for weeks and which Ron had not received any of yet, would have all been sent out at the end of Clothes Minded, when both Kim and Ron began applying to colleges. ---- All of these are, to me, "forced continuity". Spit takes are such a generic schtiick that trying to book-end them is reaching. At first I wanted a citation for the "clock joke" as intentional, but it feels like Original Research. Receiving acceptance letters has No Continuity. As I understand it, there would have to have been a statement about receiving, expecting, or waiting for them for there to have been a case of continuity; at the very least Kim actually start submitting applications. While it *does* make sense the acceptances would have to be *after* Clothes Minded (not at the end of the episode, Kim had yet to fill out any applications or get letters of recommendations in that episode), it just plain feels "forced". Otherwise, might as well say the last episode of the series is a callback to the first episode of the series. Love Robin (talk) 21:36, February 9, 2013 (UTC) :I agree about the spit-take. It is a common gag when someone is surprised. Nothing more. :The clock messing up is one that I actually agree has some validity to being possibly intentional. It isn't a real common gag, although it isn't unheard of, and it is interesting that it is used in the very first production episode and the very last episode. :The whole acceptance letter thing is not only a stretch it isn't even valid in the real world. Acceptance letters are not mailed out as soon as application are sent in. There is an application deadline and acceptance letters are mailed out after that deadline and some time for the admittance board to review the applications and decide who to call in for interviews and such. Also, it isn't really any major point of continuity. It is simply logic that event B has to follow event A. :Mknopp (talk) 04:12, February 10, 2013 (UTC) :::Then the clock should either require a citation, or moved to Trivia and re-worded as an "interesting thing". :::Love Robin (talk) 09:28, February 10, 2013 (UTC) :Yeah, it should be moved to the trivia section, not, continuity. :Mknopp (talk) 17:19, February 10, 2013 (UTC) Graduation Year Moved this here for discussion. ---- If Kim was a Sophomore in 2002, the year the show debuted, then she and her class graduating as Seniors would be three years later making them the Class of 2005. Not, as some think, 2007 the year the show ended. ---- Is a year ever seen anywhere in the show? If not it is also possible that she and her class are the Class of 2007 and she was not actually a Sophomore in 2002, despite the show being debuted in 2002. Heck, it is also possible, and in some ways likely, that the entire show is set in some alternate or future setting and neither of these years are accurate. My point is that without some canon source of the year, then I don't see how we can really state anything about their graduation year. If we do put it into the notes section, then I also feel that we need to present all alternatives. Thoughts? Mknopp (talk) 16:05, February 11, 2013 (UTC) Unless a show starts with contractual guarantee of completion, there is no way to determine if it will go all the way. Thus why the debut year is generally the anchoring point in absence of canon data points. So the correlation of Real Life debut year the same as year of the show. Now, while it *is* true the year is missing, so KP could be retro 50s to 70s or future, that is, to me, a bit of speculative Original Research which is not only unsupported, but according to the KISS, unnecessary. I mean I could see thinking future or even retro-future if there was something like a moonbase with a large civilian populace. But as everything is easily *today*, then that is the best way to proceed. So Kim a Sophomore in 2002 is KISS. So my statement of IF the year was 2002, THEN a normal American Sophomore-to-Senior 3 Year progression makes them Class of 2005 rather than 2007, which would have been a 5-year progression. As an If-Then statement, it is both true and low in speculation. The Writers certainly couldn't have (shouldn't have) planned at the start to sync the show-to-RL with 2007 when there was a 1.5 year production gap and unexpected 4th season. That my statement is not fully supported by Canon is why I placed it in Notes rather than work it into the Body of the Article. Love Robin (talk) 02:01, February 12, 2013 (UTC) However, you make one huge assumption that is the basis of my KISS for why your If-Then isn't as obvious as you make it sound. *Everything* isn't easily today. In fact, a lot of what is seen on the show isn't possible even half a decade after the end of the show. The primary distance weapons are laser based, not projectile. Several inventors developed AI capable of easily passing a Turing test. They have artificial gravity and a single stage to space craft. They have cloning, genetic splicing on a gene by gene basis, memory reading machines, teleportation devices, mind control devices which apparently hijack motor control, and on and on. Sure, there are some aspects of the show which are similar to our modern day world, but there are also a myriad of advanced devices which seem to be readily available that do not exist in today's world. So, to me it isn't obvious that "everything is easily *today*", because that isn't what is seen in almost every single episode. The KP universe is best described, to me, as a retro-future--love that term--or an alternative present. Second, the creators likely didn't provide a year on purpose. They wanted the show to be as timeless as possible, and even speculating on a year destroys that. So, I am at a loss as to why this even needs to be in the Notes section, because it isn't as cut and dried as you like to make it seem, even with the if-then statement. In the long run, I just find the inclusion of any year tied to the in-universe KP as to be both confusing and a bit misleading. It is, to me, no different than why you want to eliminate any trace of calling evil Ron Zorpox or calling Jim and Tim James and Timothy. That is my take at least. Anybody else have any opinion on this? Please speak up. Mknopp (talk) 13:55, February 12, 2013 (UTC) Most of the fantastic belong to Genius-level individuals, mostly Mad Scientists. The US Army in Rufus vs Puddles were equipped with (although not shown firing) M-16/AR-14s. Here is the thing about the If-Then for the year… There are fan writers and artists out there depicting Kim's class as 2007. If we're to *truly* do the job of being an encyclopedic source, then we should be behooved to provide relevant information so they can at least make *informed decisions*. I already acknowledge that canon does not fix a year, which is why I placed my If-Then among Notes as opposed to into the Article Proper, but the fandom is ''already ''making presumptions and assumptions; if Class of 2007 is to be as most (wrongly) assume, then Kim's first Season would have had to been 2004, two years after the show's debut. See, the series covered Kim from Sophomore through Senior Graduation, a three year period; but the *show* was in *production* for FIVE years. hands so it basically comes down to: most are going to fix the date to something Real Life, so popular choices boil down to either year of Debut, or of Finale. Now, back in November'12, I asked about if Tara's page should mention "King" as one of the Fanon surnames for her. Your answer was "As long as it is clearly stated as such and is relevant enough to be included then it is okay to place fan supposition in this area. Within reason." I believe an If-Then in the Notes is clearly stated as such, relevant, and within reason. Love Robin (talk) 15:22, February 12, 2013 (UTC) Fair enough. Add it back in, however, I will tell you right now that I will edit out any connotation that it is the *correct* way to view it. I see absolutely no problem with any fanfiction author making Kim part of the class of 2007. Who cares that it would make her a sophomore two years after the season premiered. It doesn't hurt anything, and holds just as much canonical weight as stating that she is the class of 2005. The facts are plainly laid out by you. The series covers three years in-verse, but took five years real life to cover. Thus, there are two *equally valid* ways to interpret the year of Kim's class, if one even cares about such things. One could move forward from the year of her sophomore grade, as fixed by the airing date--Class of 2005--or one could just as validly fix the year of her graduation at the date of the airing and shift the previous episodes forward in time--Class of 2007--to fill in the gap. If one wishes to even fix a date for a fanfiction, then both are equally valid. Mknopp (talk) 16:58, February 12, 2013 (UTC) :I have added back the removed part and included text on the alternative views as well. See what you think. :Mknopp (talk) 17:10, February 12, 2013 (UTC)